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    Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

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    Andrew Gersbach

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    Join date : 2009-11-16
    Age : 45
    Location : Bywong

    Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Andrew Gersbach on Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:49 pm

    Please let me know!

    jcsledda

    Posts : 63
    Join date : 2010-01-21
    Age : 51
    Location : St Andrews, Victoria

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by jcsledda on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:24 am

    Hi Andrew,
    Although this year is shaping as a very quiet one for me personally, I would like to see a pointscore in place not only for 2011 but for future years also. It has been "disappointing" to see the 2010 disappear from the map.
    An idea that I think also has merit, is the one flagged when Shaun had his brief stint - that being a pure breeds pointscore for registered Mals, Sibes etc. This may be a way to capture more entrants from the breed clubs, whose interest may have slipped in the recent past.
    It seems, at present, that the "racing" is geared towards the speed factor of the hounds and alaskans, whereas there are many out there, like myself, that are also interested in the traditional breeds.
    Just some thoughts.

    Regards,
    Justin Celentane
    Snowpaw Alaskan Malamutes
    St Andrews Vic 3761
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    Andrew Gersbach

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    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Andrew Gersbach on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:41 pm

    Hi Justin
    I spent many hours last year compiling speed/place/distance/breed data for every race in Australia, I found it quite useful to see who raced where etc and we absolutely acknowledged the Pointscore winners and published all results. I hope you found them in your browsing.

    I also want Pointscores to continue but don't seem to be getting much support from the wider community. I intend to use the following races in my calculations unless otherwise requested:
    VIC - Goldseekers
    SA - Wild Dog
    SA - Trophy Race
    WA - Chidlow National Championship Race
    WA - Margaret River
    NSW - Hunter Valley Classic
    ACT - CSDC

    We may need to include a 2nd race in NSW and VIC to help people qualify for the Pointscore...thoughts?

    I struggle with the correct methodology around "group A v B v C" type pointscores, as for example I disagree that Siberians should have a separate class as Sibes performed pretty well against all breeds at Underra on the weekend taking out some of the top positions. I am genuinely unsure which minority breed we should give its own pointscore. If anyone wants to come up with a formula I would be happy to review and support it if its suitable.

    Happy to chat offline if you want to bounce some ideas around.
    Andrew

    Schusski

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    Join date : 2009-11-26
    Location : Kyneton Vic

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Schusski on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:22 pm

    Alaskans are a traditional breed Justin just not recognised in the show ring,I agree with Mr G sibes and /or any breed can do well at any race ,I'm still not sure a pointscore is of much use here in Oz ,After spending many hours years ago trying to get the pointscore 'right'with a committee of other mushers it seems we are still chase our own tails about pointscores .The dogs don't care about it,they just run for us,personally I'm over it I just want to be part of my team and enjoy the run.
    Hows the twins Justin ?
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    Rob

    Posts : 53
    Join date : 2009-11-24
    Location : Qld

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Rob on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:35 pm

    Hi All,

    Whilst I don't particularly care for pointscores personally, I acknowledge the desire for others to gauge their teams progress and improvement throughout the season, and to compare their efforts against others across the country.

    I also acknowledge the efforts of Andrew, and others previously in the sport who have toiled over developing a workable format that incorporates all the factors and tabulates them fairly into a result. It is a difficult task and with numerous criteria to consider, and so many variables to include that many formulas do become complex and time consuming to calculate for all the included event types [not to mention dog types].

    I would however think it is incumbent on all the competitive states [and their respective clubs, ROCs] to support the formats continuation, on behalf of their members, and the sport nationally. There is more to the pointscore than just who is faster, more competitive or better trained than others. The pointscore tables participation rates across the country, strength and resilience of events to be included year after year, and can be used to map trends in the sport. There has to be something to show at the end of each year for those who work so hard to support the sports continued growth and development in this country, and if sponsorship for the sport going forward is in the minds of all who want better recognition, support, prizemoney and other forms of backup, then the pointscore results are a useful tool in the ASSA portfolio when putting forward a case for greater support. IFSS will acknowledge our commitment to growing the sport in Oceania as we have the proof. The pointscore is just one form of unity in the sport but it is an important one as it draws all participants together across the country and makes them feel like they belong.

    Like Wayne I just enjoy running my dogs, but please dont lose sight of the bigger picture or it could be to the sports detriment. Please respond to Andrews request if you havent already or you may discover the sport is diminishing and ask - why?

    As for the speed factor of hounds - I can only laugh as my team belted through the Stanthorpe forests last w/e at a cracking pace - then stopped frozen and still for minutes before they switched back on and remembered what they were there for. Historically speaking hounds are traditional types. They oldest known dog painting is of a Pointer, it just wasnt in harness at the time!

    Happy Trails.

    jcsledda

    Posts : 63
    Join date : 2010-01-21
    Age : 51
    Location : St Andrews, Victoria

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by jcsledda on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:28 am

    @ Wayne. Yes, I do agree its "all about the team" - that being dogs and musher. My favourite times running my guys (and I dont have the numbers as some) are when I've been out in the back country in the Victorian High Country breaking trail in a metre of pure snow. Watching the sun come up over the mountains and hearing nothing but the noise of the dogs, a stream and snow falling from branches. And then theres race time - the howl that rolls through a camp of a hundred competing mushers and the several hundred dogs.

    So whilst I agree its about the dogs, I also take and agree wholeheartedly with Robs comment, and that was what I was attempting to articulate. When I, for example, look at race results (at a non club event) I look at like for like breed factors. Both present and historical. I look at interstaters running the same breed for comparison. I can say wholeheartedly that 2008 for me and my dogs was "the" year. And it was topped off by receiving pointscore awards. It was reward for my "elephants" against some of the more fleet of foot.

    Rob, I'm interested in your comment "...toiled over developing a workable format that incorporates all the factors and tabulates them fairly into a result. It is a difficult task and with numerous criteria to consider, and so many variables to include that many formulas do become complex and time consuming to calculate for all the included event types [not to mention dog types]." Should it really be that complicated? What is wrong with a 100 1st, 99 2nd, 98 3rd etc etc? These can be easily extrapolated across results per race, and to position by breed type. So, in other words you will have a "true set" (being overall positions used for National pointscore overall position) and then subsets for breed type (with the respective positioning starting at 100 and working down). So, for example, a pure bred registered sibe comes 3rd overall, thus receives 98 points towards National pointscore. It is placed 1st by breed type, so receives 100 points towards pointscore by breed type. Is that workable? It perhaps does away with the complexities of speed etc. It also enables a very easy comparable for mushers of their own dog type - and may just have the objective of spurring any perception of waning interest (real or perceived) in our sport/pasttime/hobby.

    I would be interested to know if ASSA is privy as to whether or not the participation levels have decreased/increased/stayed the same? Do some owners feel "left out" by that quest for speed as I mention above. I can say quite honestly that there are some out there that feel "they get nothing" from being part of ASSA or from going to private races (other than the running of their dogs). Perhaps, just perhaps, it is those that are the ones that need to be brought back into the fold.

    Wayne, thanks for the question re the girls. They turned 8 months yesterday and are doing really well. Happy, healthy, eating well. Couldnt ask for any more really. Both Mel & I are very lucky with the way the health, particularly of Lili, has turned out - our little miracle bub!! Couldnt ask for the two of them to be more different. We were all looking forward to Undera, but stupid me came down with this wretched cold bug in the middle of the week. Bit hard to do much when you cant breathe!!

    Anyway. Back on topic. In my opinion, the pointscore has a place. And I believe if it is made more "available" in the sense that I have mentioned, it may just spark up some more interest. Perhaps if memberships renewals get out early, this very question can be placed on the membership form? Just a thought for consideration.

    Take care all.

    Justin Celentane
    Snowpaw Alaskan Malamutes
    St Andrews Vic 3761




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    Andrew Gersbach

    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2009-11-16
    Age : 45
    Location : Bywong

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Andrew Gersbach on Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:41 pm

    due to popular demand -
    I am including all races in the pointscore, I will be calculating results using the following criteria:
    Race-breed-speed-state-class-age-distance.
    Every major race is eligible, minor club only races excluded.
    Qualification Criteria: musher must race outside of their state and be a member of ASSA.
    Please send me your results!!!! andrewgersbach@gmail.com
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    Rob

    Posts : 53
    Join date : 2009-11-24
    Location : Qld

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Rob on Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:57 pm

    Justin, I guess Andrew has answered that question for you. Although the age criteria I'm not so sure about! Does this increase or decrease my handicap? Now I think I'll run my huskies and pointers together in the same team just to throw the calculations haha.

    Cheers
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    Andrew Gersbach

    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2009-11-16
    Age : 45
    Location : Bywong

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Andrew Gersbach on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:39 pm

    its the Wayne Baker clause.

    Seniors pointscore

    jcsledda

    Posts : 63
    Join date : 2010-01-21
    Age : 51
    Location : St Andrews, Victoria

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by jcsledda on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:26 am

    Stop being ageist Andrew, I think I fit into that "club" too!! And from what my knees are telling me, I'm a certainty.

    Congrats on the pointscore decision too. Personally, I think its a decision well made.

    Justin

    Schusski

    Posts : 59
    Join date : 2009-11-26
    Location : Kyneton Vic

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Schusski on Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:06 pm

    Mr G are you using my name injest again when are you younger(and not by much)whipper snipers going have at least a tiny little bit of respect for justin and me ,No respect these days.
    Wayne
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    Andrew Gersbach

    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2009-11-16
    Age : 45
    Location : Bywong

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by Andrew Gersbach on Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:37 pm

    Sorry Sir.
    Hope you've had your warm milk before bed... Very Happy
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    ACT Rep

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    Join date : 2009-11-23
    Age : 90
    Location : Canberra

    Re: Does anyone want a Pointscore in 2011?

    Post by ACT Rep on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:37 am

    Under 50 and claiming age factor????? Ha! You can't do that. Go the vets! A few creaky joints and wrinkles make dog and musher proud of any achievement - we should get points for just finishing. Very Happy

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